Fertility grief rarely gets treated like grief. It doesn’t come with a funeral or a casserole from a neighbor, but it’s just as real. Registered psychotherapist Delia Petrescu, founder of Get Reconnected Psychotherapy Services, joined Dahlia (registered dietitian and founder of Dahlia Nutrition) on Instagram Live to talk about exactly that.
The conversation covers why fertility grief goes unrecognized, the difference between grieving a miscarriage and grieving unexplained infertility, why “shadow grief” can resurface years after you think you’ve moved on, and how partners can support each other when they grieve differently. Delia also shares practical ways to prepare for triggering moments like baby showers and pregnancy announcements, and why phrases like “at least you know you can get pregnant” do more harm than good.
Watch the full conversation and read the transcript below.
Full transcript
[00:00:00] **Dahlia:** So hi, everybody. My name’s Dahlia. I’m the registered dietician and founder of Dahlia Nutrition, and today is such an exciting day because we have Delia, and we actually bonded. I feel like at the Canadian Fertility Show, we’re like, “Oh, our names are very similar,” and we just- Yeah
[00:00:15] Gravitated towards each other and started chatting.
[00:00:18] **Delia:** Delia.
[00:00:20] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Yeah. Welcome, Delia. Today we’re gonna be talking about fertility and grief, so today might be a bit tough, maybe a little bit triggering for those who are watching. So just a heads up it’s okay if you have to step away.
[00:00:33] We’re gonna be posting the recording on our Instagram page so you can, revisit the content when you feel comfortable. But I do want to introduce you, Delia. Delia Petrutski. Did I pronounce your last name right?
[00:00:46] **Delia:** It’s Petrescu. Petrescu. Yes.
[00:00:48] **Dahlia:** Registered psychotherapist and founder of Get Reconnected Psychotherapy Services, offering virtual services in Ontario.
[00:00:57] She specializes in trauma therapy, reproductive [00:01:00] mental health, fertility counseling, and postpartum struggle. So really great areas here that are covered, and a lot of experience. Delia’s pursued intensive training in reproductive psychology. She’s an expert columnist for Psychology Today, writing about reproductive trauma and infertility, and she’s been a guest speaker at the University of Toronto on reproductive mental health and the Canadian Fertility Show, which is where we met.
[00:01:25] Where she also has presented on infertility trauma, and she’s a professional member of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine and Fertility Matters Canada, and serves as an executive committee of the Counseling Special Interest Group of the Canadian Fertility and Andrology Society. So very busy person.
[00:01:44] So thank you for joining us today.
[00:01:46] **Delia:** Oh, thank you for having me. And you’re right, this is gonna be such a great topic, and although heavy, it will be very good to cover.
[00:01:53] **Dahlia:** Yeah. And we’ve got some questions ahead, but also those who join throughout the chat, if they’ve got any [00:02:00] questions feel free to pop them in the chat.
[00:02:01] We’ll take those as well. So- All right, let’s get started. So we’ll talk a little bit about grief because I find this is a topic, like a lot of people when they think of grief, they just think of like death of a family member, someone they knew. Why is fertility grief often unrecognized or like, unnamed and especially with people who are experiencing it?
[00:02:23] I’d love to hear like your thoughts on that.
[00:02:26] **Delia:** Yeah, and this is such a great question. I think we’ll probably need one hour just for this topic at all- … just for this question at all. But I’ll try to be as concise as I can be. And you’re so right, the society doesn’t see infertility grief as, like the typical grief.
[00:02:40] And a lot of the times it’s because, this is called disenfranchised grief. So it’s the type of grief that is not recognized or validated by society. because when we’re looking at the word grief most of the time we’re looking at a loss, a tangible loss, right? It’s the death of someone and not necessarily an invisible loss that it comes for a lot of people, and [00:03:00] that’s what infertility is.
[00:03:01] Even though it’s such a real loss for the person going through it, it can be so invisible to the, the, to the person that is not experiencing it. And for someone who didn’t go through it it’s almost like it’s unimaginable how deep and raw this pain of grief can be. And I wanna say that infertility grief is so complex- just because, it’s on so many different layers. It’s the physical, it’s the emotional mo- emotional with the psychological, but then it’s also the imaginal, right? I like to call spe- specifically infertility grief a, a prospective grief, because we’re not grieving the loss of something that happened before, right?
[00:03:41] Because when we’re talking about grief, the death of someone, we’re grieving memories from the past, we’re grieving that person that was and no longer is here. But with infertility, a lot of the times we’re grieving what we want but it’s not here, right? So it’s something that it’s, we’re grieving the absence of something versus the [00:04:00] no longer being of that something.
[00:04:02] And that can be very difficult for our brain to come to terms with, right? And our brain likes, our mind likes to make meaning out of everything, and for this it cannot really make meaning. And then we can continuously ran- lengthlessly try to make meaning out of it.
[00:04:17] **Dahlia:** Yeah. So it’s almost like you’re, it’s kinda like you’re grieving the life or the future or the plan that you had in your mind for what that would look like for having a family.
[00:04:26] And like infertility space, like even, the number of eggs retrieved and what you end up getting versus what you thought you would, or the embryos that end up fertilizing and making it to, say, day five. I feel like that’s… you grieve. You go through grief in, in all of these losses, right?
[00:04:45] **Delia:** Yeah. And it’s different from disappointment, right? Because when we think about, if you’re going in expecting that you heard from a friend or you heard from someone else, a coworker, that they’ve done IVF, and, “Hey, you know what? I had 30 eggs retrieved.” And then it makes you think, “Wow, I’ll go in and I’ll have so many eggs, so [00:05:00] many chances.”
[00:05:00] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:05:01] **Delia:** And then, there, it’s based on an individual level. It’s a unique situation. Sometimes you might not have any eggs retrieved, any follicles. Sometimes you might have a lot, but none of them actually fertilize or none of them come back genetically normal. So it’s basically we’re grieving the not only the idea, but it’s also that idea compared to someone else, right?
[00:05:19] Yeah. It’s like that comparison.
[00:05:21] **Dahlia:** Yeah. And also or compared to what typically others in this space, and then you’re always comparing yourself, and it can be really tough,
[00:05:30] **Delia:** Yeah …
[00:05:30] **Dahlia:** so I think of embryo transfers too, like the type of results you get in your embryo transfer might not be positive.
[00:05:37] **Delia:** 100%.
[00:05:38] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Yeah.
[00:05:39] **Delia:** It’s hard for even the person going through it, through the infertility, for them to consider it as grief, especially at first. It also depends on what stage you are in this journey. But it’s such a I- it’s such a difficult thing to grasp with.
[00:05:54] You have that relentless drive. You can’t stop. You wanna … it’s almost like you don’t have time to grieve. It gets [00:06:00] closeted temporarily, and it, “I don’t have time for this. I can’t release the pain.” And then you’re just in survival mode. You’re just trying to kinda make it to the next finish line, to the next thing that is on the agenda.
[00:06:11] **Dahlia:** Yeah, and that can build up, right? Do you see … Like, how do you see that with clients over time if it’s not processed, or, like, how can you even process some of this?
[00:06:20] **Delia:** Yeah, it’s hard, and I usually refer to this as shadow grief, right? Because it’s almost like you didn’t deal with the grief initially, and sometimes the, we have grief from realizing that we didn’t have the typical route to the pregnancy, right?
[00:06:34] So it’s almost like, when you’re trying for a couple of months and, somebody says, “Maybe you should go,” or your family doctor mentions, “You should, … Maybe I should give you a referral to a fertility clinic,” then you start grieving the fact that it’s not unexpected. It’s not, spontaneous, that you’re gonna go surprise your husband or, your partner from, “That’s it, I’m pregnant,” and, the announcements as they go.
[00:06:54] And it accumulates. It can be repetitive. So you might feel that you already processed the grief. You [00:07:00] might feel better. You’re on a good running. You’re, you already made the decision, and then something comes up, … and I think we’re gonna talk about it in, when it comes- to triggers. Yeah. But it’s shadow grief because it comes back from the shadows. It- it’s something you think you, you already processed, but it’s not really processed.
[00:07:16] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Okay. I didn’t know about that term, and it totally makes sense. And when you … I’m also thinking of, like, how is grieving miscarriage or loss that way versus I’m thinking also unexplained fertility is something we hear a lot.
[00:07:32] I see clients who sometimes have unexplained fertility and it’s … and that is a term that really bothers me as well because it’s like what have we still not discovered or explored? But I feel like that’s still another big part. Like how is grieving that … Is that any different than like what that might look like compared to say, miscarriage, ectopic, those kind of losses?
[00:07:53] **Delia:** Oh, and again, this is such a it’s such a great topic. And since you said that you have this complex relationship with the word [00:08:00] _unexplained_, I have a complex relationship with the word _miscarriage_. So I … The word itself means that it was carried wrong, right? It was miscarried.
[00:08:10] So for me when I hear the word miscarriage, it has nothing to do with the person carrying it. Miscarriage does happen very often, and although for people that are going through it, it just feels like we’re the only ones going through it, we’re the only ones experiencing it, because it’s such a silence around it.
[00:08:23] Nobody really talks about it. But it happens very often. It’s one in four pregnancies actually end up in miscarriage, and it’s very significant there that it happens so often. And with unexplained, it’s such a difficult diagnosis because once again what I said earlier, our mind likes to make meaning out of things, and when we don’t give it a meaning, we’re just like, “Yeah, we’re not sure.”
[00:08:41] It’s the unknown. We’re not sure what is going on. You could be getting pregnant, but you’re not. At the same time you’re hoping for it, but then you’re also not getting it. So it can be very difficult. The, both of them, the miscarriage and the unexplained infertility, both of them are also part of grief, but they can be a little bit different, especially for a [00:09:00] miscarriage because with a miscarriage, you already made it a little bit of the finish line because you’ve experienced pregnancy, even for a short moment, however long that was.
[00:09:10] Depends on when the pregnancy was lost. With unexplained, it’s something that you still want very much but you haven’t really gotten a taste of it per se. And I wanted to mention a really interesting research that I came across when it comes to, like struggling to conceive and our ideas and family planning and everything that goes around with that.
[00:09:30] So since- For a lot, for the majority of people, I’m not gonna say everybody, just because everybody is unique still. We, since the moment we are children, we play with dolls as if we’re the mothers, right? We have that parenting role. And then we have this this idea, this imagined future that, oh, I’m just gonna finish school.
[00:09:48] I’m gonna find my partner. I’m gonna build a career, potentially buy a house, and then we’re gonna be ready. Maybe travel in, in the meantime, and then we’re gonna be ready. And then when we’re ready, it doesn’t [00:10:00] happen for a lot of us. So I like to refer to it that infertility is this, is a disruption in the order of things, at least the order that we expect.
[00:10:08] So it’s a disruption to the developmental stage when it comes to that, expected route that we had. So going back to what I said about that that research basically the moment we start imagining a future child, so we imagine their birthday, we imagine holidays, we imagine all these things, our mind already makes a bond with it.
[00:10:28] So it creates a space and it actually lights up the same areas in our brain when we actually fall in love. And there were actually I actually wrote it down. So it’s basically the research on maternal brain and the process of maternal infant bonding.
[00:10:41] So basically the same areas in the brain light up when mothers are imagining the pregnancy- Wow … that future child. So it’s basically when it comes to unexplained infertility, miscarriage, or just trying to conceive, just having that idea, we’re grieving that loss of the [00:11:00] bond that we have in our brain, right?
[00:11:01] So it’s still, it’s like the phantom limb phenomenon, right? It’s as if it’s there, but it’s not there.
[00:11:08] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:11:09] **Delia:** If it makes any sense. So it’s very interesting that, the same areas, they light up when it comes to the experience of love.
[00:11:16] **Dahlia:** Wow. Pretty powerful. And that, you can think of especially f- those who are going through such a long process too of you know, whether it’s say, IVF or, set number of IUIs, then IVF, and just the, the process that just gets stretched and stretched.
[00:11:30] And like you said “Oh, maybe now we’re ready to start a family.” Yeah. And then you discover that you need more time and more testing and more procedures and then another few years have passed- Yeah … till you even have a diagnosis sometimes or have a pr- be able to carry a pregnancy to term,
[00:11:48] **Delia:** yeah.
[00:11:48] **Dahlia:** Yeah, very complicated. And it also can affect the body. I certainly see it on the nutrition side of things. The fertility treatment, the medication side effects can have a big toll on appetite, [00:12:00] on side effects like bloating could be constipation, could be appetite losses, things like that from some of the progesterone- for example. And then the grief
[00:12:09] **Delia:** is- Which is my least favorite .
[00:12:11] **Dahlia:** Yeah, the progesterone oil is brutal. That’s also one of my least favorite things. I just dreaded that. Like my body would just shake every time. Yeah. I
[00:12:21] **Delia:** think you made that video, right? What about the progesterone and all?
[00:12:24] **Dahlia:** Yeah. It’s, then you kinda- And that’s the things, right? You just plow through. Like you just g- gotta do what you gotta do- Yeah. Yep … and get things done, right? That’s the mindset you’re in. How do you see grief affecting body and mind really in your conversations with clients, or like what in this space around that?
[00:12:43] **Delia:** Yeah. So it definitely affects the body, and, … But I’ll touch more on the mental health aspect, the emotional part of it. Basically, when it comes to infertility and going through treatments, we lose so much of the control, and we cannot really grasp that idea of not [00:13:00] having control, so we try to control as much as we can, right?
[00:13:02] So when we hear about, the diet, that being so good, the Mediterranean diet, it’s like the go-to for for fertility treatments, then we can s- we can be strict when it comes to what we do, when we eat, and how we exercise, when we exercise. And then that can show up even at nighttime. We can start worrying, “Oh, I had a glass of wine,” or, “I had a sip of champagne at that party,” or things like that.
[00:13:25] And then you can ha- start ruminating, worrying, overthinking, and then that can affect sleep. So it’s such an interconnected cycle of everything combined, and especially with nutrition as well. We, when we’re stressed, I don’t know how everybody is, but me personally, when I’m stressed, I don’t eat as good as possibly I can.
[00:13:42] When I’m stressed, it’s almost like my brain is craving that sweet. It’s like, “Move that energy back.” So yeah. It’s it’s complicated. It’s very complicated. Yeah.
[00:13:51] **Dahlia:** It is. And you’re right, and it’s a cycle, right? Because if you’re not getting enough rest and sleep, you’re not feeling well, and then you could also be making different food choices when you just don’t [00:14:00] have that energy, and then it’s just a cycle that, that kinda goes into repeat.
[00:14:04] Do you have any tips in terms of mental wellbeing, when you’re going through grief? Like I know for me personally, I just thought, just be gentle with yourself, and like you don’t have to feel like you gotta follow all these rules. Like I sometimes see with clients like, “Oh, I had chocolate today,” or, “I had dessert,” and, “Is this gonna ruin my fertility?”
[00:14:24] And it’s like it’s one day. It’s two days. It’s not gonna, be that detrimental. Yeah. For sure. So do you have any tips on like the mental wellbeing side? Any strategies?
[00:14:35] **Delia:** So when it comes to tips, I guess it also depends on what stage you are in the journey. So if you’re at the beginning stages, your hope might be a little bit different compared to someone that it’s in their first year or third year or fifth year in, into trying to conceive.
[00:14:48] So when it comes specifically to grief, I would just… I always say to you have to name it, so you have to name exactly what is going through for you. So it doesn’t have to be necessarily, “Oh I’m going through grief right now.” But know acknowledge [00:15:00] and validate that anger whatever comes up for you in the moment.
[00:15:03] It could be anxiety, it could be jealousy, it could be anything that it’s happening. To just acknowledge that it’s normal that you’re feeling this, that way. Like you’re human and you’re still being deprived of something that you want so bad and you can’t quite get at this time.
[00:15:17] And when it comes to tips in general I usually when it comes to hope, I actually wrote a blog on, the repeated losses of the hope and how it can now be traumatic, and it’s on Psychology Today. When it comes to hope, it’s really good to have a grounded hope. That’s why I usually tell clients because it’s very easy to go into that, positivity aspect.
[00:15:38] Like the positivity, optimism or, the cautious optimism when it comes to it. But to know exactly what your expectations are gonna be, having the realistic expectations that hey, it could work, but it could also not work. That will give you that balance, and it will give your brain something that it’s not really the unknown, right?
[00:15:56] You’re not going as okay, it could happen. Knowing that it could be the [00:16:00] two things, it can really ground you into that balance. Another thing that that I wanted to mention is, try to figure out what would you need in the moment. So try to be kind of pro- proactive when it comes to it.
[00:16:10] So if you know that next week you’re gonna have the embryo transfer, plan your days before and after around it. So if you’re gonna be going on a walk or out for a coffee with a friend that got preg- got pregnant easily or that is celebrating her two-year-old birthday in the next couple of weeks, and that’s the anniversary of a pregnancy loss or of a failed embryo transfer, anything like that.
[00:16:33] Like a due date, something that would remind you. Just be mindful of what would you need in the moment. If you need to just… if you need to be by yourself or you need the distraction, go for that.
[00:16:44] **Dahlia:** Yeah. The, these are very good points, and it brings up the social aspect of things.
[00:16:48] Some people get triggered by pregnancy announcements, baby showers, or for others it could be, like, certain holidays that kind of revolve around family, or like Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, things [00:17:00] like that. Do you… How do you kinda tell people to handle those triggers but also s- maybe still participate, or maybe the recommendation is not to participate?
[00:17:11] … Like, how, what are some of the strategies you’ve worked with in this situation?
[00:17:16] **Delia:** Yeah, so going back to what I just said, it’s pretty much figure out what is it that you need, like being proactive about it and thinking, “Okay, going to that gender reveal or baby shower that you’ve been invited, how is that gonna affect you, and who is it gonna help?
[00:17:29] Is it gonna help you, or is it gonna help the f- the friend?” Also even if you do decide that you can go, that would be a good distraction for, like your mental health space, that you feel that you’re ready for it, you can go but make plans around it. Make plans that, may- maybe travel by yourself instead of getting a ride from someone.
[00:17:47] Perhaps maybe tell a good friend that is there that, “This can be triggering for me. I’m not sure yet but I might have to leave early,” or things like… So it’s almost like planning what is good for you instead of just, putting, just the, [00:18:00] toughening up just for the sake of being there, of being social just because people don’t…
[00:18:04] a lot of times people don’t recognize it-
[00:18:06] **Dahlia:** Yeah …
[00:18:07] **Delia:** that it’s such a deep deep thing that happens for people.
[00:18:11] **Dahlia:** Yeah, so it’s kinda like trying to plan ahead for some of those sit- scenarios so that- Yeah … you’re not caught off guard as well as something that comes up what about partners? Let’s talk, I wanna talk a little bit about partners. So for those that are going through fertility treatment and have a partner what if one partner kinda grieves differently or kinda moves on a bit faster, or maybe it doesn’t affect them as much as, or that they’re showing it, how do you help couples navigate that without sometimes, there could be some resentment building up as like- “how come I’m putting in all the work, and I’m going through the disappointment? It doesn’t look like you’re disappointed, or it’s bothering you.”
[00:18:50] **Delia:** Yeah, for sure. And this comes up pretty much with every single couple- … if not, yeah, it’s, if not the majority of them. But and it can be especially there are [00:19:00] gender differences of how couples deal with a pregnancy loss or with the, the fertility diagnosis, and that could also, that could be a total different topic when it comes to whether it’s a male factor in fertility, female factor, combined.
[00:19:13] That resentment can feel a little bit different depend- depending on those factors. But when it comes to grief specifically we can have the resentment like, “Oh I’m feeling this so deeply, and here you are. You’re going golfing. You’re going to the movies, or you’re going to work all the time.
[00:19:29] How come you’re not … This didn’t matter as much for you.” So this comes up a lot, but all I say to couples is that just because someone is grieving different, that doesn’t mean it’s less meaningful for them. So they might, s- some people might need to talk about it. They might need to cry to cry it over with someone, or talk e- excessively about it, and the other person might just need to just be in, inside their head about the grief.
[00:19:52] But that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s less than the partner. So a lot of the times we tend to have a negative assumption about the partner [00:20:00] when it comes to this. And I remind couples that try to have a positive in, positive assumption about that, that they’re still grieving.
[00:20:07] It’s just that they’re showing it differently than you. And if it’s really important for you to talk about it so you can feel that your partner kinda has the same feelings as you, just mention it. Just speak about it o- openly, and then see what each one of you needs in the moment.
[00:20:22] Yeah. because a, a need can be different
[00:20:25] **Dahlia:** Yeah. That’s a very good reminder. Everyone grieves differently, and just allowing space for that is, is important. So is there such a thing as grieving too long or a wrong way of, to grieve, what do you say when someone feels guilty like that they’re maybe g- grieving for quite a l- whatever long means, maybe they feel like it’s long, it’s been going on for a bit of time.
[00:20:47] **Delia:** Yeah. I wanna say I, I don’t necessarily think there’s a wrong way to grieve. But it can definitely be a, a detrimental way to grieve a, a way that can be a lot harder into moving forward when it [00:21:00] comes to this. So grieving in a bad way, if we can call it that way.
[00:21:04] It would be if we constantly suppress it when you’re constantly telling yourself that it’s okay, nothing is nothing is wrong I’m not gonna go through this, I’ll just keep going that shadow grief can come back. But it can also… I like to use this analogy with with clients that suppressed g- grief, it’s pretty much as if you’re holding a balloon underwater, you’re keeping it down, you’re successful, not… the ball is not coming, it’s not jumping in your face, up until your hands get tired, and that ball comes jumping, and it just makes a big splash. So it’s very similar to grief that it’s being suppressed. After a while, you’re gonna have a trigger.
[00:21:40] Something’s gonna happen, and your reaction might be 10 times more than it was, it would’ve been in the first place when it comes to that, right? And unprocessed grief can be, for example, you think you processed it, and five years down the road you might be doing grocery shopping, and baby formula in the grocery store, and you start crying all of a sudden, [00:22:00] right?
[00:22:00] It’s because it, it wasn’t processed and it was just suppressed when it comes to it. And this is not saying that, we’re seeing that it’s the wrong way to grieve through it, but it would be unexpected if it- … it’s unprocessed.
[00:22:12] **Dahlia:** All more reason that people should seek support and have someone to speak to, like yourself, to navigate them through this.
[00:22:19] **Delia:** It’s hard
[00:22:20] **Dahlia:** It is, yeah.
[00:22:21] **Delia:** It’s very difficult. And even if you h- know someone or you have a support system with someone that has been through this, just because there are different stages of this, you can have advice that can be the most well-meaning advice- Yeah … on the planet, but it can come so bad, right?
[00:22:38] If it’s someone that chose that, “Okay, that’s it. I’m deciding to stop treatment. I’m gonna have a, a childless not by choice a future,” it can be very invalidating for someone that still wants to try. And if you tell them, “You know what? Maybe it’s … Think about your financial aspect,” or things like that.
[00:22:56] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Yeah. And that brings up there’s things people say, and [00:23:00] they don’t, don’t mean it in an ill way, but it just is not landing right. What are some common things you hear?
[00:23:07] **Delia:** Oh, the at least.
[00:23:09] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:23:09] **Delia:** At least the the most, most common. And then the one and I want to say, most of the time it’s it- it’s coming from people that have a good intent, but I also wanna add in a bracket without talking about that, but there are also people that have an ill intent when they’re making certain comments.
[00:23:25] Right? That’s just to say that it’s not all comments are well-intent. It’s also the, “Maybe I should give you my kids.” It’s almost like it just sounds that it’s something that, it’s I’ll just, yeah, I’ll go to the store and I’ll just purchase one. Yeah. But at least, you can get pregnant.
[00:23:39] At least it happened early, especially when- Yeah … it happens with a miscarriage. That, that is never easy to hear. But I wanna say, just because I’m a psychotherapist, so I kinda have, a, a good idea about people in general that they mean so as humans in general, it’s very hard for us to sit with raw, heavy emotions.[00:24:00]
[00:24:00] So without even realizing it, it can happen on a, a subconscious level that our mind turns instantly into problem-solving mode, right? So when we see someone in front of us that they’re suffering, they’re in so much pain, we don’t know what to do with that pain, and we instantly go into problem-solving.
[00:24:15] And then it’s “Oh, look at the bright side.” “Look at the silver lining. At least you know you can get pregnant.”
[00:24:20] **Dahlia:** Yeah … so that’s the worst. At least- Exactly … you know you could get pregnant. That’s horrible to hear after you’ve experienced a loss.
[00:24:24] **Delia:** Exactly. So that, and then it makes you realize why people don’t talk about miscarriage, right?
[00:24:29] It makes it such an isolating experience because instead of telling, talking about it, and then somebody says something like that, you just don’t wanna hear it. Yeah. So might as well just close it. So you don’t even bother to talk about it.
[00:24:40] **Dahlia:** Yeah. You just fold it in. Yeah. Yeah. And and even some gestures some great things people can do to support their loved ones going through fertility could even simply be, like, the drop a meal off or just be there for them gro- do some groceries.
[00:24:57] Things like that can be- … helpful. Anything else come to [00:25:00] mind on your end that could be helpful- Yeah … if someone was gonna support someone kinda going through a tough time with fertility?
[00:25:05] **Delia:** Yeah, and I’m so glad that you brought this up, because this is so important. And a lot of the times we assume what the other person might need from us.
[00:25:12] Yeah. So I usually always say and this happens, even for someone that is going through the trenches of, fertility journey we assume what the other person would need because that was probably something that we needed back then or that is something that we need right now, to just ask.
[00:25:26] To just ask, to just say, “I’m really sorry you’re going through this. Sounds, that sounds like a really hard time. What do you need from me? Do you need me to distract you? Do you need me to take you out? Do you need me to, come over so I can talk about it? Share as many details.
[00:25:38] Do you wanna cry?” Anything that it is that you need. And for the person who’s going through it, just think about it, what is it that you need? Do you actually- Yeah … need to talk about it? Do you need to just, sleep it off? D- what is it that you need? And a lot of the times what I might need in this moment might be different than what I need tomorrow.
[00:25:54] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:25:54] **Delia:** And that, that might be different from what I need in a week from now. So it can be very very different. [00:26:00]
[00:26:00] **Dahlia:** Yeah, no, these are very good reminders to ask or offer some options so that the person can tell you what would be more supportive for them. And- … yeah, sometimes I find oh, assuming like, let’s go out is like- Yeah
[00:26:12] also that might not… Sometimes like you wanna just stay with it and process your emotions and- Exactly … it’s not the first thing you wanna do. So instead of making those assumptions.
[00:26:20] **Delia:** And one thing that I wanna add that I see this a lot in my practice is if you’re going through this, and you’ve been through losses, and, and then y- somehow you’re successful at it, either through IVF or, like you become pregnant, and you have other friends that are still going in the process, it’s almost like we are so afraid of messaging that person to let them know that we’ve become successful.
[00:26:43] So once again we’re making assumptions of what the other person needs, right- … based on what we might have needed at the time. Like I didn’t wanna hear about a pregnancy announcement, so I’m not actually gonna say it to this person. Yeah … so it’s very important to know that. So when it comes to f- the person experiencing it [00:27:00] for a lot of people, it’s knowing ahead of time.
[00:27:02] Telling your, all your friends that are still trying, “This is very delicate for me at this time. Can you please, if you are announcing a pregnancy, announce it to me privately. Don’t announce it in front of a party because I don’t know how my, how I might react. I might react well, or I might d- have to rush all the way to the washroom just to cry it out.”
[00:27:21] Yeah. So it all depends on what is needed in the moment.
[00:27:24] **Dahlia:** Or even maybe via message rather than in person to give you that space to- … process it is some of the things I’ve seen as well that have been helpful.
[00:27:31] **Delia:** Yeah.
[00:27:32] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Now I wanna kinda talk about moving forward and what that could look like.
[00:27:37] There’s closure but there’s sometimes kinda continuing to carry that grief, but trying to live fully when y- is there any suggestions or recommendations in kind of what that might look like? What- … whatever the case may be. Maybe you’re wrapping up and, you’re saying, “That’s it,” “I’m exhausted. I’m done with fertility treatment.” Or maybe [00:28:00] it’s just you’re kinda, even just the news that you even have to do fertility treatment itself is something huge, or to use a donor or sperm donor, which was not on your radar.
[00:28:11] **Delia:** Yeah. So I’m not a particular fan of the word _closure_.
[00:28:15] because when we talk about the infertility of reproductive loss, it can imply that you’re just done with something and you’re closing the door, right? And a lot of the times, like I said, the shadow grief this is something that can stay with you. So even with someone that experienced the _closure_, I’m gonna use air quotations for the fact they, they made it to, to the other side.
[00:28:36] They were successful in conceiving. For them, that grief can still show up, five years later. So just the fact that you were successful doesn’t actually erase the infertility and everything you’ve been through. So all of that, you know, like the traumatic experiences that comes from that reproductive trauma can still show up.
[00:28:53] So when it comes to closure, it’s… A lot of the times we have that fear of regret, [00:29:00] right? And it’s the regret of the decision that we made. And the thing is, in hindsight bias, we always look back, _oh, maybe I should have done that one last IVF or that one last treatment, or I should have went overseas, I should have went international._
[00:29:13] _Yes. I heard about that clinic that does- Yes … more research on unexplained infertility_ and things like that. So it’s about, you know- Figuring out what is it that you’re making the decision at the moment, right? So reminding yourself that whenever you are making the decision, you are making the best decision that you’re making in the moment with all the information that you have.
[00:29:35] Yeah, if you would’ve had more information or if you’ve been, like, travel five years into the future or travel five years in the past, maybe you could’ve done things differently. But in order for you not to have that regret of the closure, whatever it is that you’re choosing, to really come to terms that I am making this decision now, and I’m making the best decision with whatever I have on my plate right now.
[00:29:57] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:29:57] **Delia:** Cause that can be s- that can be really [00:30:00] painful. It can add a total form- another form of grief.
[00:30:04] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Oh, absolutely, and that’s a good way to position it. And you remind me about some of the terms, like I… you’ve mentioned it a few times, some terms that you don’t like, and it’s it’s kinda…
[00:30:13] I find in the fertility space there’s a lot of… Even infertility, like- Yes. I personally don’t like _failed embryo transfer_. Yeah. Oh. That term to me is-
[00:30:23] **Delia:** You did something wrong to fail
[00:30:24] **Dahlia:** it … you did something wrong. Yeah. It’s your fault. So there’s a lot of terms like that, that I think with- Yeah
[00:30:29] In this space we we gotta rethink and rename.
[00:30:33] **Delia:** Yeah. I think there was another term that it comes up a lot. It’s the _diminished ovarian reserve_. It’s, it just makes it sound so limiting, right?
[00:30:41] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:30:42] **Delia:** And then same thing that you did, you’ve done something. Yeah.
[00:30:44] **Dahlia:** Which is already… you’re always in this space thinking like, “Did I do everything I should have done?”
[00:30:49] You’re always- Yeah … easy to kinda do some self-blame or when really it’s not your fault. But I think just naturally being- Yeah … going through this, it happens. The last thing we need is more [00:31:00] medical terms that have a negative perspective- Yeah … right?
[00:31:04] **Delia:** It’s going back to that we like to make meaning out of things.
[00:31:06] So when we don’t have the answer, the default is, falling back as “It must have been something I’ve done,” right? Yeah. Something that w- it’s within our control. But it’s not unfortunately. This is something that, you can try as hard as you can be as fit as you want, you can have the best diet, you can everything, and it’s, it can still not happen.
[00:31:25] **Dahlia:** Yeah, exactly. I’m gonna take a look and see if there’s questions too in the chat, because I feel like I’ve been kinda talking away. And if anybody has questions please drop them in the chat. I don’t think I see any questions. I’ll give it a second, but while if anyone has some questions, Delia, how can people work with you?
[00:31:43] How can they reach out to you?
[00:31:46] **Delia:** Yeah. So there’s a couple of ways they can reach out, either via Instagram. So I have actually two … I have the group practice, the getreconnected.ca, so it’s the handle
[00:31:54] @getreconnected.ca. Fertilitywithdelia .com. Or also if you Google my [00:32:00] name, Delia Petrescu, you’re gonna find me on a bunch of other platforms.
[00:32:03] Psychology Today, you can find the website or also the, the Jane app. So there’s many ways. And if you forget the names of the practices that I mentioned, just Google my name.
[00:32:12] **Dahlia:** Yeah. And we’ll tag it. Yeah. We’ll tag you in the recording. And and yeah, and and looking forward to checking out some of your articles too in Psychology Today.
[00:32:20] So I know you’ve referenced a couple. You know-
[00:32:22] **Delia:** I actually have a blog, an article on unexplaining fertility and why it feels different, so I think you might like that.
[00:32:28] **Dahlia:** Yeah. Yeah. We gotta … we’ll get anybody who’s interested to check it out. I’m definitely gonna take a look, so that’s fantastic.
[00:32:35] This has been so informative, and it’s a really important space, I feel, infertility, that we really needed to have conversation about. So thank you so much for joining today and talking all about it and sharing all your knowledge and expertise.
[00:32:49] **Delia:** Oh, thank you for having me, and this was a pleasure.
[00:32:51] And this … Even though it’s such a heavy topic and s- and thing to talk about it feels good to discuss it because, like I said, it’s such a … [00:33:00] We’re such a silent society when it comes to the fertility journeys, and we definitely need to put our voices more out there.
[00:33:06] **Dahlia:** Absolutely. And I find the more you speak about it, the more others will speak up or even share with you.
[00:33:11] I know that just me sharing, I had so many messages like, “Oh, I’m also going through this,” or, “I’m also going through that.” And it’s like we had no idea we could have- Yes … so- 100% … and it can feel, and it can feel very lonely, so it’s really good to have support and to also, not, you yes, you’ve got fertility clinic, but make sure there’s mental health support, nutrition support, acupuncture, all of that.
[00:33:33] It takes- … a full care team to get through this. So just remind everyone not to go through this alone, and that there’s experts that can help support you. And a lot of times, health benefits that you might have with your employer- Oh, yes … cover these benefits, so you’re not paying out of pocket, which is something we know fertility is so expensive as it is.
[00:33:50] **Delia:** Oh, yes.
[00:33:51] **Dahlia:** So I know a lot of health benefits have coverage for your services as well as with nutrition, so I encourage everyone to check how much [00:34:00] benefits they have and- … and to make sure that they get the appropriate support for them.
[00:34:04] **Delia:** And I know it can be such a… Because everything feels rushed, it’s also the biological clock that is into question.
[00:34:11] But it’s also, the rushing into the treatment, into the next the next thing, the next planned thing, and it can be so much information that it’s bombarded at you. It can be very hard for you to figure out, okay, what should I do now? Should I actually reach out to mental health support?
[00:34:23] Should I reach out for a massage? Should I, should I book a vacation? What is it that I should do, right? So just become curious about what is it that you need in the moment. If you feel really stressed out, it could work either way, right? Of w- what you could seek support for.
[00:34:36] **Dahlia:** Yeah.
[00:34:36] **Delia:** I know it’s hard.
[00:34:37] **Dahlia:** And also I know there’s a lot of googling and s- AI and ChatGPT- ChatGPT … trying to get answers, and sometimes it’s not the correct, No … and I know especially in nutrition, I see a lot of misinformation. But even just make sure you leverage the health professionals for support rather than just putting all the ownership on yourself to research and look things up.
[00:34:56] We’re here to make things easier because we’ve gotten that [00:35:00] education and research, kinda. Now we’re- we’ll just help you apply it. So- … just wanna remind everyone as well about that part.
[00:35:06] **Delia:** Yeah, you’re right. And most of the fertility counselors that I’ve met and that I’ve known, they have a lived experience.
[00:35:13] And so they know from a very personal level how it is and h- how to overcome, the, this grief and everything. But then they also have specialized training, which, which really matters when it comes to this. And then they can re- also really help you advocate. For example, if you’re going to a fertility clinic and you feel that you’re being pushed or you’re not really being listened to, or the appointments feel rushed, it can help to have someone to really help you to, to really get what you need in the moment at that appointment, and how to make the decisions.
[00:35:40] **Dahlia:** Absolutely. And this is an area where I find there’s a lot of self-advocacy that has to take place, unfortunately.
[00:35:46] **Delia:** Yes.
[00:35:46] **Dahlia:** Yes. Yeah. Sure. Which can be a whole other process on its own. You’re trying to research everything and figure out what to ask and what not to do. Yeah.
[00:35:55] **Delia:** And the, the thing is, this is not to put, the onus on the fertility doctors, you know. Everything is so [00:36:00] fast-paced and, what… If you’re going to a fertility clinic, you’ll see how busy the waiting rooms are, right? So it just feels every time you’re going to a fertility clinic, in the waiting room, you realize, wow, this happens to a lot of people.
[00:36:12] So sometimes it feels like it’s actually more than one in six Canadian couples going through it. But it’s, like I said before, it’s such a secret society. It’s so shush, shush. Let’s not talk about it. And especially for women in the workplace too, right? That taking time off to to make it to a fertility appointment it can be it can be treading waters whether you talk about that, taking time off and…
[00:36:33] But that’s, once again, we’re going into a, a whole new level of a topic.
[00:36:37] **Dahlia:** Yeah. No, but these are all important topics because do you tell work? Do you not? Because could there be a bias if you tell work in terms of what that, can that affect anything in your career? And then I know a lot of clinics have early morning appointments, which are so helpful.
[00:36:50] Gotta do that, and then, go to work and move on with your day. But it makes for very long days as well. Yes. Yes.
[00:36:58] **Delia:** Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s an whole other [00:37:00] new level of stress. It is. Yeah. Thank you for having me. This was, has been a pleasure, and I look forward maybe we do another collaboration of Instagram Live or whatever it is that we need in the future.
[00:37:10] **Dahlia:** Yeah, that would be great. It was so good having you. I feel like we can talk for hours on our various topics here. So thank you so much- Sure … for sharing all your knowledge with us today. And yeah, enjoy the rest of your summer, and we’ll connect again.
[00:37:23] **Delia:** Thank you. You too. Hey, take care. All right. Bye.
[00:37:25] **Dahlia:** Bye.
[00:37:26] **Delia:** Bye.
source https://getreconnected.ca/blog/fertility-grief-dahlia-nutrition-instagram-live/
No comments:
Post a Comment